Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: mkempe on October 31, 2016, 08:42:15 AM
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So yesterday I was out fishing in the squamish area for coho and chum. I got to the spot around 730AM and the first bit of light was just hitting the water.
I walk down to the bank, notice 2 anglers across the river, and 2 on the main stretch (probably only space for 2 there). I walked about 20 meters downstream and noticed a free spot, with another angler maybe 5 meters down river of it. I asked if he was OK me fishing above him and he didn't have problem with it.
Out of nowhere, after my first cast, one of the anglers across the river begins cursing profusely, and finishes off with "Use your f****** head".. My first reaction was that he thinks I'm fishing too closely to the guy downstream, so I explain that I had asked him, to which he replied with a slurry of profanity followed by "not him the guy above you".
I'm not an expert angler, but I'm not new and understand common angling courtesy, and know that when you fish below someone, you should typically ask, but I was a distance away that with my hardest throw I MIGHT be able to hit him with a baseball. Further, the guy wasn't even float fishing, he was hucking spoons straight in front of him. His lure was not coming close to me.. To me it seemed ridiculous to get called out for this. Am i wrong?
I then walked up and asked the angler above if he was okay and similarly he said, "no problem at all"..
I later found out that the angry guy across the stream goes there "every day" and lives "right around the corner". Was he being territorial and wanted everyone to play by his rules? I guess I just want to know what the rule of thumb is for asking the angler upstream for approval, because this ruined my day and I kept second guessing myself... Couldn't enjoy the scenery of the feeding eagles and great fishing action because in my mind I was quite distraught..
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Haven't fished the Squamish in a number of years, but when I did, If you were with-in 10yards of anyone there ,they would give you that WTF look. It was explained to me that fishing pressure is light there, with lots of room, therefore you don't need to be near anyone else. Also, IMHO that person probably thought you were low holing him(getting first crack at fish travelling up) Sorry, that it ruined your day though
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I normally try to ask too, because my natural inclination is to be polite. However, I've also learnt that to "ask" just to be polite, when you pretty much know that you're within generally acceptable or reasonable guidelines, is just to invite jerks to say no.
In which case, what do you do then? Kinda becomes confrontational and tense.
I found I do it person by person, if they appear like minded and friendly I ask, but sometimes I just smile nod and ask how it's going as a way to start off being friendly. If they, however, explain to me why they have a problem with me fishing where I am and it seems reasonable to me, then I have no problem moving on.
It's a fine line though, I always get a little anxious when I get to the river. And I know everyone has different interpretations of what is a "reasonable" guideline, but you know what I mean.
I think you were perfectly within your rights to fish where you did...if you couldn't hit the guy upriver with a baseball and wasn't in the way of his drift etc...may be different for steelhead season, but that's even getting crazy last couple years. Yeah sorry it ruined your day .. you ever watch those youtube videos of salmon fishing in the States.. now that's combat fishing.
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That guy get's there early to play "king of the hill". Nothing but getting out of hearing distance of his inner child works. I had a clown with all the expensive gear and C-pin rod come down the bank across from me and act like he owned the Capilano we were fishing. I hooked a Steelhead on my coffee grinder set up while sitting down. They guy frothed up like a rabid dog about my technique etc. swearing away the whole time. Go figure.
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thanks for your all of your replies,
Lesson learned is to do as Animal Chin suggested, ask after interpreting their personality. If there's a serious issue, I'll move on... Still.. tough to not just flip a guy the bird after being talked to like that, no point escalating his emotions.
Cheers!
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thanks for your all of your replies,
.. tough to not just flip a guy the bird after being talked to like that, no point escalating his emotions.
Cheers!
If he was an old timer telling me off, then I just take it as a part of the pageantry of angling...haha.
Easier said than done sometimes. Generally though whenever I've had mini-confrontations, once we've been fishing together for a bit it becomes pretty friendly when that initial confrontational urge dissipates. But sometimes you just have to sigh, and move on when you're pretty sure the new guy who just came in killed the bite.
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Generally speaking, on rivers with light pressure, if there's a couple guys fishing a run then I wouldn't even bother fishing that run. The Sauamish is a prime example. You did nothing wrong really but always ask the guy above you first if you are worried about etiquette.
People who go to rivers like the Squamish, go there to be in less pressured water. If they wanted to catch their limit they would go to gong show and fish there. Next time personally I would just find other water as there is plenty of it on the Squamish. Again this is personal choice but during Steelhead season there I feel like I'm crowding a guy if I'm even within eye sight of someone else on the same bank as me. Just my personal thoughts.
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Generally speaking, on rivers with light pressure, if there's a couple guys fishing a run then I wouldn't even bother fishing that run. The Sauamish is a prime example. You did nothing wrong really but always ask the guy above you first if you are worried about etiquette.
People who go to rivers like the Squamish, go there to be in less pressured water. If they wanted to catch their limit they would go to gong show and fish there. Next time personally I would just find other water as there is plenty of it on the Squamish. Again this is personal choice but during Steelhead season there I feel like I'm crowding a guy if I'm even within eye sight of someone else on the same bank as me. Just my personal thoughts.
Couldn't have been said any better. With the exception of one or two popular spots..
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Generally speaking, on rivers with light pressure, if there's a couple guys fishing a run then I wouldn't even bother fishing that run. The Sauamish is a prime example. You did nothing wrong really but always ask the guy above you first if you are worried about etiquette.
People who go to rivers like the Squamish, go there to be in less pressured water. If they wanted to catch their limit they would go to gong show and fish there. Next time personally I would just find other water as there is plenty of it on the Squamish. Again this is personal choice but during Steelhead season there I feel like I'm crowding a guy if I'm even within eye sight of someone else on the same bank as me. Just my personal thoughts.
I'd bet money this was not on the Squamish - my guess is the Cheakamus.
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IMO, bad etiquettes, are cursing at other people whether you think they do something wrong or not. There's no need for that kind of attitude on the river. Everyone's out to enjoy the day, have fun and learn.
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There's no need for that kind of attitude on the river. Everyone's out to enjoy the day, have fun and learn.
I wish I could live in the utopia and pass it on to my kids and grand kids! :D ;)
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I think the guy in question is just being a total jerk.
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I think 5m is a little tight up on someone to be fishing...that's like 15feet. I have an 11ft rod, combine that with a 3-5 foot float and a leader....doesn't leave much room for lines to be swinging.
Honestly...if you think It looks too close to fish beside someone then it probably is. A guy yelling from across the river is just being a dink. If anyone wants to speak up on it then the guys on either side of you are the only people should be.
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More importantly, how was the fishing? /s/
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Yes I agree 5m is close shinny (perhaps it was 8m as there was 0 risk of us tangling ;D). In hindsight, even though he had no issue with it, I probably should have just bit the bullet and driven somewhere else. That morning bite just gets you so eager!
@ htdub, I saw no coho hooked, but had a lot of success targeting chum on a piece of purple/pink wool under a float. I had dreams about bobber down last night :) Guys on spoons and spinners weren't having any luck except for foul hooking a handful of chum, which led to either getting spooled or a 10 minute fight.
I appreciate everyone's honest opinion!
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If there is someone above me (in the same 'run'), I will always ask if it is OK for me to step in below them, particularly if they are fly fishing and fishing down the run. In the more popular spots, where there is already more than one angler, and it is obvious that people are fence posting (Judd road), then I may not depending on the degree of separation, such as being well outside of their swing. Even in this circumstance, I will usually throw out a do you mind.. as a courtesy ..to the upstream and/or downstream person.
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Of course every river and situation will have varying degrees of acceptable spacing. IMHO if you've come to an amicable agreement with those above and below you, then it's all good. The rantings of some sourpuss across the river need not be considered.
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I always just judged the spacing of others and walked in. You're there for the same reason they are. Having said that, it always depends on the size of the hole/run. sometimes nothing is needed to be said - other times its best to try make small chat as ask if there's room for one more. Then I time my cast not to interfere with the other drifters. I never liked stepping between fishermen - I find it awkward.
What I used to do if the guy walked in low enough initially but then proceeds to crab walk up uncomfortably close to me, I simply made it look like I was adjusting my float and would take a step or two back, then I would start short casting but drift long so that the retrieve comes real close to his waders. Most get the hint without having to say a word.
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IMO, bad etiquettes, are cursing at other people whether you think they do something wrong or not. There's no need for that kind of attitude on the river. Everyone's out to enjoy the day, have fun and learn.
Hopefully my post didn't come across as sounding like the guy yelling across the bank was justified in my mind as I didn't really address that in my post.
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The guy cursing is across the river. Most rivers are wide enough that there is no implied spacing between fishers on either bank.
The Cheak is narrow enough in many places that the OP actually low-holed the guy.
In winter this would be a fightin' offence.
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IMO, bad etiquettes, are cursing at other people whether you think they do something wrong or not. There's no need for that kind of attitude on the river. Everyone's out to enjoy the day, have fun and learn.
My thoughts exactly! There's no excuse for being an "idiot" right off the bat. When someone does something that interferes with my fishing (either moving in too close or casting over my line) I will always say "excuse me" and politely tell them what the problem is and if they would mind making some adjustment. Mind you, I did this on the Chilliwack this year when a guy came in after me and started short casting above my line to get to where the fish were. He replied "Don't talk to me - you ruin my day!". LOL. I guess he didn't like me hooking coho so much. I didn't bother telling him he had no hope of hooking a coho based on his hook size, leader and presentation.
Sometimes I see guys fly fishing ask for unreasonable room. Yes - fly fishing requires more space. But it can generally work with more than one person per run! I should know, as I used to only exclusively fly fish. Just take a look at the Squamish during pink season.
Anyway, from what you described I don't see any problem with what you did.
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In this case you were ok. You sound like a reasonable fellow. He was playing mr. local high and mighty. Territorial, like a local surfer
On factory waters like chehalis/vedder/capilano during the salmon runS IF there is a decent amount of space between myself and an upstream angler I will just drop in and give a head nod , a wave , some sort of acknowledgement to gauge the situation.
During Steelhead season on ANY water I will always always always ALWAYS start at the top of the run and rotate in. Everyone should do this. If the run is busy , or the head of the run is occupied, I will sit and wait my turn. If I drop in , even at the tail out with one other person at the top , I will ask and MAKE SURE the angler ahead of me is ok with this.
Early October I was up in Skeena country spey fishing in the kalum and copper systems. GOD *&%ING help you if you drop in on someone anywhere in a run up there without having a conversation and asking first ahaha. It's like the locals who fish the Thompson. Things can get heated very, very fast.
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During Steelhead season on ANY water I will always always always ALWAYS start at the top of the run and rotate in. Everyone should do this. If the run is busy , or the head of the run is occupied, I will sit and wait my turn. If I drop in , even at the tail out with one other person at the top , I will ask and MAKE SURE the angler ahead of me is ok with this.
Well said
This is how I approach just about every run.
Just recently I was at the Ranger run, when I got there the run was essentially 'full'.... I went to the top of the run.... I waited about 20-30 mins, had a drink and a bite... Then the guy below me gestured to me that he was done and I could take his spot....
At that spot I did well.... Took home a nice Spring and a Coho ... Also landed a big wild Coho.
Patience paid off .... When I moved down there was someone else waiting for me to vacate my spot too!!
However on busy weekends ... all bets are off and people do just squeeze in.... If they squeeze in too close to me I will say something, I don't rant and swear, can usually get it sorted out...
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Well said
This is how I approach just about every run.
Just recently I was at the Ranger run, when I got there the run was essentially 'full'.... I went to the top of the run.... I waited about 20-30 mins, had a drink and a bite... Then the guy below me gestured to me that he was done and I could take his spot....
At that spot I did well.... Took home a nice Spring and a Coho ... Also landed a big wild Coho.
Patience paid off .... When I moved down there was someone else waiting for me to vacate my spot too!!
However on busy weekends ... all bets are off and people do just squeeze in.... If they squeeze in too close to me I will say something, I don't rant and swear, can usually get it sorted out...
Hahaha! most likely everyone who gotten the prime areas are just rip/ tearing or as I watched one guy, he only had his set-up adjusted to 3 feet when the area he was fishing was probably about 6-8 feet deep.
Ugghh... weekend fishing, I avoid it as much as I can. I had one guy on Thanksgiving day trying to cast to the other side of the river, kept pelting me with chunks and bits of roe... I just kept my calm and ignored it, probably could have scrounged up some of those bits and used them myself. ;D
Most people generally will listen and wait, talking calmly is the best thing to do and not getting so aggrivated helps. It's about relaxing and enjoying your time on the water, not looking for a boxing match or verbal assault. :o
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So what is the etiquette when you hook a fish and have to move downstream to land it , are you still " entitled " to your original spot ?
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Damn straight you are
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Ya I knew that , just irks me when I come back to my original spot and guy beside is suddenly a lot closer than before, hate having to say something to guys for them to move
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A true sign of a beak. They think just cause you caught a fish standing on that rock that it has magical fish attracting powers and must stand on said Rock aswell.
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Intetesting. I grew up being taught if you catch a fish you go back to the head of the pool. That what I always read to, but that was steelheading.
What I have always wondered, if you get to a spot at the same time as another what is the etiquette. An example, a few seasons ago me and a person were getting ready at the same time, he was a few seconds ahead on the trail. In this spot there 3 distinct pools close together. Each clearly distinct with shallow riffles in between but all with in say 100 yards of river. He goes to the top of the first pool, am i low-holing him if I go to the top of the third pool leaving the middle one between us?
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Intetesting. I grew up being taught if you catch a fish you go back to the head of the pool. That what I always read to, but that was steelheading.
What I have always wondered, if you get to a spot at the same time as another what is the etiquette. An example, a few seasons ago me and a person were getting ready at the same time, he was a few seconds ahead on the trail. In this spot there 3 distinct pools close together. Each clearly distinct with shallow riffles in between but all with in say 100 yards of river. He goes to the top of the first pool, am i low-holing him if I go to the top of the third pool leaving the middle one between us?
Correct. Steelheading is a whole different ball game. I should have been more clear. In the salmon meat holes it's a steady conveyor belt of fish so fence posting is the norm if you're in a prime spot.
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Of course there's also the guy that snags a spring in the arse and chases it downriver for 30 minutes and expects to hold his spot an hour later when he returns.
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Correct. Steelheading is a whole different ball game. I should have been more clear. In the salmon meat holes it's a steady conveyor belt of fish so fence posting is the norm if you're in a prime spot.
I was referring to salmon fishing as well , the OP was about salmon , steelheading is not the same at all
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Of course there's also the guy that snags a spring in the arse and chases it downriver for 30 minutes and expects to hold his spot an hour later when he returns.
He's also the guy that boasts about his epic battle with the aforementioned spring
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I appreciate that salmon are different, I just practice moving to the top regardless. Never gave it much thought, and never had a problem. I agree with the earlier statement that there is no magic rock. With the numbers salmon moving through a pool at a given time it is usually more a matter of finding what they want rather then being in the right spot. If someone slides down into my spot when I am off playing a fish so be it. If I catch a fish they missed great, and if they hook into one then the spot opens up again and I can slide down if I want.
This is of course on smaller streams such as the Vedder. On the Fraser your rod holder marks you spot.
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Salmon season=fence posting. It's one of those first light adventures where you know that guy with the thermos means business. Fortunately I know my favourite run rather well so it doesn't bother me. During steelhead season when my primary style of fishing is swinging a fly it becomes a nuisance.sometimes I just reel up and move well down from them informing them on the way of my actions. Some don't mind but more often than not I get the dirty eyeball