Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ry the fly guy on October 30, 2018, 10:58:17 PM
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I'm looking for a new pair of waders, I'm tired of buying the cheap pair and having them not even last the season so I'm going high end this time. What type of wader do you use and why? I am mostly considering Simms or Patagonia, specifically G4 vs Rio Gellegos? and whether or not a zipper is necessary?
Thanks in advanced.
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been a G3 user for some time. I am very happy with the reliability and comfort of Simms waders. I have heard some very good things about Patagonia. They have a store in Vancouver and I hear any warranty issues can be handled through them which cuts some of the hassle of shipping waders to Bozeman
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G4Z for me. I used yesterday for an example. It was raining hard. Cold rain too. I was able to keep my jacket on while I took a piss. That's the main reason why I bought the front Zipper Simms. I used to hate taking my jacket off and leaking on the front pouch of waders everytime I took a leak.
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Frogg Toggs
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I use and have (almost) always used Simms waders and outer gear.
I have nothing bad to say about Patagonia gear as I have no experience with their outer wear. I do like the founder of Patagonia and his position on conservancy and responsible use of land and rivers, but not enough to fanboy his gear.
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Patagonia. A lot more bang for your buck
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Right now my G3's are in for repairs after 5 good years of use. So I'm using my Patagonia Rio Gallegos Zip fronts which I bought as backup.
Some observations:
Both my G3's and Patty's are very well made and seem to be durable enough to withstand years of abuse whether crawling over boulders or whacking through blackberry bushes etc.. If you plan on fishing in those type of conditions, a high end wader with many layers is essential.
My G3's are not zippered but the Patty's are. Which do I prefer? While zippered is a nice convenience to have, its up to you whether you think its worth the extra coin. I kind of like the storage that non zippered waders offer though.
As for the fit, I am 5'8 and about 165. I use a MK in the G3's and an M in the Pattys. The G3's are only very slightly wider in the chest. The Patty's fall in between Simm's M and MK. Overall though I prefer the fit of the G3's over the pattys. The pattys don't have unbuckling suspenders which to me is a bit of a pain. Regardless of what you do, if you are spending this kind of money on waders make sure they fit properly. The majority of premature failures from waders stem from poor fit. I have waders for both the summer and fall/winter months. Wear what you would wear underneath when fishing when you go and try them out. BTW, the Rio Gallegos waders have knee pads which can be removed from inside your waders. Awesome when you are kneeling down on a rock or the ground.
Breathability. I was a bit worried about whether the Patty's with their H2No fabric would offer comparable breathability to Gortex but I am glad to say that it works well. The Patty's have a lining in the neoprene feet that works great when you are in the water but a little warm and clammy when you are not. Overall though I am just as comfortable in my Patty's as in my G3's.
As for Warranty and service, much has been discussed here about the inconsistency of service from Simms. I've always had good service from Simms whether its for their wading jackets or waders. It seems Simms and Patagonia have a difference in philosophy with their High End products. Simms makes and services their Gortex waders in Montana. Their strategy is to treat high end waders like cars. Spend a good bit of coin on them initially and pay a little every so often to maintain them. They expect your waders to last a long time. Patagonia would be more apt to replace rather than repair. Their waders are made overseas and it would be cheaper to just send a replacement than to send them away to try and fix them. Either way, always have a backup pair to use because it can take a month or more for your waders to get replaced or repaired.
I am happy with both products. I don't think you can go wrong with either choice.
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G4Z for me. I used yesterday for an example. It was raining hard. Cold rain too. I was able to keep my jacket on while I took a piss. That's the main reason why I bought the front Zipper Simms. I used to hate taking my jacket off and leaking on the front pouch of waders everytime I took a leak.
I have a frogg togg waders and the shoulder strap buckles alternate so you can clip them together pull the front of the waders down and take a leak with your jacket on. So definitely not necessary to take your jacket off and I’m assuming most manufacturers do this, for this reason?
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I have a frogg togg waders and the shoulder strap buckles alternate so you can clip them together pull the front of the waders down and take a leak with your jacket on. So definitely not necessary to take your jacket off and I’m assuming most manufacturers do this, for this reason?
I think its more to do with allowing the waders to be worn as waist high waders in the warmer months.
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I have a frogg togg waders and the shoulder strap buckles alternate so you can clip them together pull the front of the waders down and take a leak with your jacket on. So definitely not necessary to take your jacket off and I’m assuming most manufacturers do this, for this reason?
I didnt know that. Sounds like a neat feature.
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I would never give a dime to Patagonia. They support activist enviormental nut bars.
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Simms all the way g4 or g4z have had both it just depends if 100 bucks is worth a zipper. They definity last 100 pee breaks so a dollar a pee sounds good to me.
Patagonia has a good warranty and you will need it more time in repair then actually fishing.
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Thanks for all the info! probably gonna go with Simms. I have heard the g3s have gone down in quality lately, could anyone attest to that? If I don't have to drop g4 $ to get great pair of waders that should last a full season or two.
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They shed some layers on the G3 if I not mistaken. They went with 3 layers in the legs opposed to the 5 in older models. It has the same features as the G4 non zip which I like(zippered hand warmers and fly patch). If you are fairly active in regards to bushwacking and take a spill often I would move towards the g4. I have the older model g3 and haven't had much issues after taking a spill on rocks and bushwacking.
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They shed some layers on the G3 if I not mistaken. They went with 3 layers in the legs opposed to the 5 in older models. It has the same features as the G4 non zip which I like(zippered hand warmers and fly patch). If you are fairly active in regards to bushwacking and take a spill often I would move towards the g4. I have the older model g3 and haven't had much issues after taking a spill on rocks and bushwacking.
The new G3's are 4 layer in the legs and butt area and 3 everywhere else. They claim its a lot lighter and more breathable while being more durable. Not sure if the claims are valid though.
This youtube video explains the changes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MsJKwpX4au8
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I'm in the same boat as Ry The Fly guy, need new waders and am between the G4/G4Z and Patagonia Gallegeos.
Was in my favorite shop the other day talking to the staff about each. Consensus seems to be that you can't go wrong with either. Staff member showed me the seam taping on the Simms vs Patagonia, around the booties, crotch and so on. He knows when I do buy I will buy from his shop, so he took a few more minutes with me than I was expecting. we looked at both waders from the outside and then turned them inside out and compared the fit and finish on the inside.
Definite edge to Simms here, they just appear to be put together a bit more carefully. Everything lines up perfect. You can tell great care went into the manufacturing process whereas with the Patagonia they looked more mass produced.
Also with Simms gortex if you think you have a pinhole leak(s) or just want to check, this can be done easily by spraying the waders inside out with alcohol. Leaks will turn dark and can easily be identified and fixed (aquaseal). Unfortunately with Patagonia the inner membrane will NOT react the same to isopropyl alcohol so finding pinhole leaks will have to be done by more labor intensive methods (filling with water, etc.).
So, IMO, quality and serviceability (finding and repairing leaks) the winner is Simms.
However, if you need to send your Simms waders away for warranty work it can be a real nightmare. I personally had a brutal experience with Simms warranty department when I sent my G3 jacket to them. Other users on this site have had similar experiences so it is fair to say it was not an isolated incident.
Patagonia on the other hand seems to have an amazing warranty policy with their waders. According to the staff member, if they leak within in a year of purchase, bring them into the store and we'll give you a new pair OVER THE COUNTER (!) Then they deal with Patagonia to get reimbursed. I was floored when I heard this.
If they leak after a year you will have to mail them to Patagonia, but they have an office in BC, in Vancouver! So shipping is way less than to mail to Simms USA, and you will get them back a lot faster. Also apparently unless it is obvious you have abused the waders you mail in, they will likely just give you a new pair.
Conclusion: Simms has the better product and Patagonia the better warranty. I am still undecided on which I'll buy. It'll probably come down to the best fit. Before steelhead season I'll devote a half day to trying on and pick the pair I like best.
Finally regarding the old G3s vs the new G3s. I'm not a fan at all of the new G3s. Yeah they are lighter and maybe more breathable than the old G3s (which I have now) but I do not think they'll hold up well to how I fish (bush wack, trip and fall, etc.). If I could find a pair of new "old G3s" I would consider them for the right price.
I have never had zippered waders but I think I'll go that route this time. Just plain sucks trying to dig out your cold flaccid appendage with cold hands on a cold day. :o
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Spawn Sack, awesome wright up thanks for sharing all of that! I think we have similar needs in waders so I've decided against the g3s. I like made in America (Simms) a lot more than made overseas (Patagonia), however one of the most important things to me is the warranty so Patagonia clearly has the advantage there. Overall though I think quality of product and made in USA will win me over in the end. As long as they can last a full season I can always send them in during the summer The ability to quickly locate pin-hole leaks with the Gortex is a huge leg-up on the Patagonias. Hopefully I can find somewhere on the Island to try both pairs before I buy, If they both fit well I suspect I'll be leaving with G4s.
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That is strange...I asked Patagonia that question specifically a couple months ago if the alcohol method would work for identifying leaks and they told me that it would...
Who is correct?? :o
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That is strange...I asked Patagonia that question specifically a couple months ago if the alcohol method would work for identifying leaks and they told me that it would...
Who is correct?? :o
Do you have the email from Patagonia? I'd have to check my saved emails, I'm pretty sure I saved the one where they said the alcohol method will NOT work.
Odd as I was looking at waders the other day and the staff in the store said yes the alcohol method WILL work.
WTF?
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Simms 100% of the way for waders. Patagonia has some excellent products in other categories. If you can find previous generation Simms G3s in your size I would snatch those up in a heart beat.
Im on my 5th year!! with a pair of G3s and the lowersection and booties are perfect with no leaks. It's only the upper inseams that are a dark and sinister mosaic of patches and aquaseal.
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True John, it seems like the old g3s were made like the new g4s with 5 layer Gore-Tex in lower, and 3 in upper. if I can find a brand new pair in XL then I would probably buy them, I just don't really want to buy a pair before I try them on, and thats the only option online. If any one knows someone on the Island selling a brand new pair of XL XLK g3s for sale let me know!
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call around the local shops and see if they have any previous models in stock. I know I've spotted a few pairs over the summer kicking around on some shelves. Its worth a shot and you might score a pair at , or near , your size. good luck!
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Thanks John, took your advise and went with a brand new pair of old g3s. Over half the price of the g4s so time for a new reel!! Hopefully I can get the same use out of mine as you have.
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Thanks John, took your advise and went with a brand new pair of old g3s. Over half the price of the g4s so time for a new reel!! Hopefully I can get the same use out of mine as you have.
You mind telling me where you found them? I've been trying to muster up the energy to call every tackle shop in the LM but have not got around to it yet.
I think I take a L, 9-11.
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You mind telling me where you found them?
I think I take a L, 9-11.
I live on the Island however, I bought the second to last pair from Robinsons outdoor store in XXL but they fit somewhat tight so they are perfect, the only size they have left is small, Island outfitters in Victoria had L, LK, and LL, but they wanted $200 more then Robinsons $399>$599 and when I told them that Robinsons was offering for cheaper they didn't seem like they believed me so I went to Robinsons.
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When I was looking for waders about a month ago Micheal and young flyshop had some old G3’s on sale but not in the large. I do believe they had some LKs tho. I also checked pacific angler and they had some as well. Don’t know which sizes. Might be worth a call.
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Thanks John, took your advise and went with a brand new pair of old g3s. Over half the price of the g4s so time for a new reel!! Hopefully I can get the same use out of mine as you have.
Awesome!! congratulations on the sweet score.
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My Simms G3's are on route to Simms for a repair (similar problem to Stratocaster - wear/tear on inside upper leg adjacent to seam). Otherwise, they are in excellent shape. I did find a few pinhole leaks in the upper portion which may have been due to poor fly casting. But I don't use them that much - I've got two other pairs of Simms waders that I use as my beater waders.
I hope Simms warranties them like they did for Stratocaster. His are even a bit older than mine!
This topic is timely, as I am considering buying another pair of quality waders so I've got a decent back-up. I'm worried my other waders will fail eventually (I've repaired them several times over the years), as they are well over 10 years old now. Patagonia was naturally the other brand that came to mind. I was at my local fly shop the other day and the guys there really like Patagonia due to their customer service. Stratocaster also really likes his Patagonia waders. The one thing that does concern me is the inability to do an alcohol test to look for leaks. Having to fill them with water to find leaks would be a PITA for me.
Anyway, Canada Post/USPS is estimating for my G3's to arrive at Simms today. I hope to have an update for the members here soon! A good update that is...
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Finally got around to trying on waders yesterday. Only bothered with the Simms G4/G4z and Patagonia Gallegos in zip/non zip.
One thing I found odd was the G4/G4Z both fit me tight in the my butt and torso in L 9-11. But my old G3s are L 9-11 and they fit just fine with room for extra layers. In the G4/G4Z I had to go LK 9-11. They fit pretty well, quite close to my G3s in L. I guess Simms has changed the dimensions on their sizing (?)
I have never had zipped waders but I would pay the extra $$$ and try them out.
Unfortunately the Patagonia Gallegos did not fit me well at all. A size L seemed to fit well, but the legs were WAY too long on me. I think you'll have to be at least 6 foot to make them work.
The G4s in LK fit much better on my 5"9 frame. This is what I'll be going with.
Just for kicks I'll call around and see what kind of price I can get on a pair of older gen G3's. If I could pick a pair up for 3-400 bucks I'd probably go for it. If I can't find a pair no big deal I'll just bite the bullet and go for G4Zs.
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Well, I have an update for the members here. As previously stated, I sent my G3 waders to Simms for evaluation and repair. My G3's are 4 years old now, and they developed wear on the upper inside portion of both legs (right leg leaking). It took a while for them to get there, as Canada Post/USPS tried to deliver them on the US Thanksgiving holiday and they were closed. They got delivered the following Monday and I got an acknowledgement from Simms that they received the waders. That was just over a week ago.
Fast forward to two days ago. I received an email from Simms advising that my waders will be repaired under warranty! Great news! I checked Simms Repair Center online and they state the repair has been completed. So I guess I'll wait until they arrive back at my door!
I'm glad I sent them in like Stratocaster did with his. Hopefully the repair will fix the problem and prevent further wear in that area. I wonder if that is a design flaw/problem, as I know of two other people who had their G3's repaired under warranty for the same issue.
@ John Revolver - it sounds like you repaired a similar area yourself. Did you end up patching/using aquaseal on the seams? I know this will work, but I was told that any such work on the seams will render them un-repairable by Simms.
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Just had my G4s with zipper sent back to Simms for repairs by Nick at Hatch Match'r in Maple Ridge...heavily used and they showed it with booties torn up (no leaks), one belt buckle broken and one pocket zipper not functioning...hopefully they come back fixed up! I have had the waders for 10 years and they have been excellent (the zipper has been invaluable and used heavily)...a little story...just over 10 years ago I had the front part of my earlier G4s eaten by rats (long story) and I sent them in for an evaluation with a funny story attached....Simms liked the story enough to send me a brand new pair of waders...class company!
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@ John Revolver - it sounds like you repaired a similar area yourself. Did you end up patching/using aquaseal on the seams? I know this will work, but I was told that any such work on the seams will render them un-repairable by Simms.
Yes All of it. Aqua seal and shoe goo on the outside seams, and gore-tex patches along the inside seams. All repairs done on the upper inseam/crotch areas. I've beat these damn things to a pulp over 5 years of steelheading ect and the lowersection and booties are still flawless with zero leaks :) - awesome . Its super rare for me to wade above my thighs so I'm going to run these things as far as I can stretch them. I'm waaaay past the point of sending them into simms. if I did, these things would probably be quarantined and burned.
Last year I seriously considered "upgrading" to the g4z but at this point I sort of like the character of my battle weary G3s and all of the epic memories and Steelhead I've landed with them.
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Further to my note below, Simms evaluated my waders as ‘unrepairable’ and sent me a brand new pair of G4Z waders under warranty...amazing...
Just had my G4s with zipper sent back to Simms for repairs by Nick at Hatch Match'r in Maple Ridge...heavily used and they showed it with booties torn up (no leaks), one belt buckle broken and one pocket zipper not functioning...hopefully they come back fixed up! I have had the waders for 10 years and they have been excellent (the zipper has been invaluable and used heavily)...a little story...just over 10 years ago I had the front part of my earlier G4s eaten by rats (long story) and I sent them in for an evaluation with a funny story attached....Simms liked the story enough to send me a brand new pair of waders...class company!
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Simms G4 for the last 5 yrs of bushwhacking, climbing over log jams and falling down numerous times and still going strong. The neoprene stockings have never leaked and only a couple of aqua seal repairs on the legs. With my insulated Simms rain jacket I can be out there snug as a bug in the worst of winter weather. #Simmsforlife