Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => Fly Fishing Cafe => Topic started by: BOWHUNTER on June 15, 2008, 11:25:23 PM
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My Questions layed out as follows
What is the best way to tie on a light fluorocarbon leader I have been able to use my 7lb fluoro with no problem but anytime I have tried to work with 4lb I struggle to tie knots, it always breaks when i pull test it,? I guess my diameters are too far apart for surgeons knots? I was trying from 8lb mono to 4lb fluoro
Does anybody feel that 4lb fluoro is needed or would a 6 or 7 lb be good enough for even the clearest of lakes?
What knots should I be using on a regular basis to tie my leader to my tippets how do most people out there take care of this?
What knots do you like to use and why?
Any tips tricks?
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As well is everybody using fluorocarbon or do you feel the cost outweighs the benefits?
I dont go fishing enough try using mono after being told to go with fluorocarbon but is sure is expensive in comparison
Your Thoughts?
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i like a double surgeons knot to do my leader to tippet bec. its strong and quick to tie. Blood knots are good too but I have fumbly fingers , especially when they are cold, so the double surgeon is just far easier. For leader to fly line, I use a nail knot, substituting a loop in the flyline for the nail. You just pull the line straight and voila!
a good tip? Always give the knot a little spit before tightening it up. It will snug up better and wont groove itself when you pull it tight.
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A ligature knot is incredibly strong...it's the same knot that doctors use when finishing off putting in stitches. Like any knot, as mentioned above, always run it through your mouth before tightening it up. I use blood knots a lot as well.
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http://www.animatedknots.com/indexfishing.php?LogoImage=LogoGrog.jpg&Website=www.animatedknots.com
Click on the knots for animated instructions
Tinhat :-)
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Just found this...may have to give it a try:
Use a Stronger Tippet Knot
by Kent Hull
You should use this knot instead of a surgeon's knot, especially if you're using a fluorocarbon tippet. Why? Because using a surgeon's knot, any breakoff will almost always occur at the tippet knot (unless you're using a very weak hook knot). If you're using strong tippet material such as Rio, Dai-Riki or Frog's Hair, this tippet knot will let you make use of the full strength of the tippet you paid for. And if you're using fluorocarbon tippet, you don't want to break off at the tippet knot. Fluorocarbon is forever, so any broken-off tippet will be in the lake or stream for many, many years to pose a threat to wildlife. This knot is the strongest known knot for tying on a fluorocarbon tippet, and is second only to the ligature knot for nylon. In 6X tippet material, this can mean a full pound more strength than a surgeon's knot. (American Angler Vol 27 Issue 6, pP 61-64). (This Rod Tip would also have described the ligature knot if I had succeeded in learning to tie it consistently so it wouldn't slip.)
This is called the Orvis tippet knot, because it won a contest run by Orvis about fifteen years ago to discover a new and stronger knot. There are three variations, the tippet knot, a loop knot, and a hook knot. In this example, the leader is to the left (red) and the tippet is to the right (blue).
Overlap the ends about four inches. (Figure 1) Holding the two lines on the leader (left) side, form a loop as shown in Figure 2. This is important: in these knots, all turns go around the same way and each turn is in a loop above the last.
Now bring the right ends (leader end and tippet body) behind the loop you formed in Figure 1, through it and up. (Figure 3) Do it again, so there are two turns of the right ends through the loop. (Figure 4)
Lubricate the knot (saliva, floatant or knot lube) and tighten by pulling the right ends and the left ends away from each other. Pull hard to seat the knot. As with all knots, properly setting the knot is essential for the knot to have full strength. You can view animated instructions for tying these knots at www.orvis.com.
Next month: The Orvis (hook) Knot and the "Lefty Kreh" loop knot. (Lefty insists he didn't invent it though he strongly recommends it, and about everyone who uses it, learned it from Practical Fishing Knots by Lefty Kreh and Mark Sosin.)
Back to Table of Contents
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Illustration ?
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Just tried out that Orvis tippet knot by looking at the animated version on their website...pretty easy to tie and very strong....I can see why that knot won the contest they were having. They said it was the best knot for fluorcarbon and second to the ligature for mono. The only draw back i see is pretty lengthy tags that need to be trimmed. When I tie blood or ligature knots I can do it so i end up with short tags so as not to waste any of the leader material.
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http://www.orvis.com/orvis_assets/files/index.html
Here is the link for others to see this is a good section of the site.
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I like the double sugeons knot as well. 5X is usually sufficient for all lake fishing, use 4X at most.
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Since I learned to tie the Perfection Loop, I used it a lot more. It takes a bit of practice. It's has a smaller profile and strong that I like. Refer to Tinhat's link to tie on the PL. I used to tie on the surgeon's loop. It's quick and easy but I have them broke off right at the knot despite wetting it before tightening.
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I'm still relatively new to fishing - especially fly fishing - and I must say - The Orvis Knot is much easier to tie than the Clinch knot I was using before.
Thanks for the post.
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hmmmm....floro....mono...is all the same to me...I tie a small barrel swivel to the leaders' end...then tie the floro or mono tippet to the swivel...never a prob with slipping knots...although I rarely use a floating line...I hook up more often subsurface...;)))
mojo
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hmmmm....floro....mono...is all the same to me...I tie a small barrel swivel to the leaders' end...then tie the floro or mono tippet to the swivel...never a prob with slipping knots...although I rarely use a floating line...I hook up more often subsurface...;)))
mojo
You wouldn't use fluoro for anything but subsurface fishing...it sinks like a rock compared to mono. Mono is a lot stiffer than mono...more slippage...hence the question of what knot to use.
When fishing chronies floating lines are the only way to go IMHO...at least until you're fishing water over 35 feet. Just need to use a looooooong leader is all. I have a few budds that use the swivel on their leaders and like it while others would rather use split shot or puddy. Both methods work quite nicely to help you get the fly down to the feeding zone at a quicker rate.
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I think flouro is worth the added expense. At $2 a fly these days spending a little more on a top quality line is worth every penny.
I use surgeon knots which have 100% strength you just need to remmeber with flouro you must, must, must lubricate that line before tightening that knot.
Remember that once you've made a leader you should only be replacing the tippet portion not the first 3 sections.
Flouro is virtually invisible so you can get by with a stronger tippet section. When I read about people using 6x or 7x tippet I shake my head. Remeber tht damn fly has a piece of sheet sticking out of it's but that a blind fish can see so why are people worrying about the need to go ulta light on the tippet.
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Flouro is virtually invisible so you can get by with a stronger tippet section. When I read about people using 6x or 7x tippet I shake my head.
Fluouo is pretty invisible above the surface, as well, and super strong, too. Not the greatest pic since I had to take the shot while playing the object in the foreground to the boat (notice the crease in the neck) and the gasping for breath. Eventually broke me off at the boat after playing him in from a 100' out. This is the 7th time it's happen to me in the last 2 years!! This may sound like a testament for Froghair leader but anytime you can play a 15 lb. loon into the boat with 6 lb. test line...well.... that's why it's my choice for tippet material.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb144/mastercaster07/IMGP0399.jpg)
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Flouro is virtually invisible so you can get by with a stronger tippet section. When I read about people using 6x or 7x tippet I shake my head.
Fluouo is pretty invisible above the surface, as well, and super strong, too. Not the greatest pic since I had to take the shot while playing the object in the foreground to the boat (notice the crease in the neck) and the gasping for breath. Eventually broke me off at the boat after playing him in from a 100' out. This is the 7th time it's happen to me in the last 2 years!! This may sound like a testament for Froghair leader but anytime you can play a 15 lb. loon into the boat with 6 lb. test line...well.... that's why it's my choice for tippet material.
(http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb144/mastercaster07/IMGP0399.jpg)
How to get the loons away from your areas? I have watched them chase fish away from patterns many times? Anybody got any good ideas without killing them?
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Hook them obviously ::) ;D maybe bring some bait fish with you and throw them the other way lol ;D
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It never fails to amaze me how lazy the loons are my lake! You'd think they could get their own fish. As hard as I try to release the fish without them swimming them down and catching them they still get 4-5 a day. They plague me to the point of total frustration! >:( I'll say one thing about loons....they are one tough bird. I've hit them with my oar as they've submarined past me under the boat, beaned them with a sling shot, reeled them into the boat 7 times in the last 2 years and it doesn't seem to phase them.....ahhhh! I hate them with a passion!
Don't get me wrong....I absolutely love wildlife but these buggers have ruined my fishing soooo many times.! They are very much like seals. You get into a number of fish...they show up and buzz the area and scare all the fish away! It's the fact that these loons have young ones that they need extra food for and it always seems that the pair on our lake always gives birth to two offsprings. I was so tempted this year to switch out their eggs with hard boiled hen eggs in hopes that they would leave it too late to lay another pair of them.
Another lake I fish frequently only has one loon on it and he (or she) does not pester me at all. Thank God they'll be gone in another few weeks! :)
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Is there a hunting season for loons lol. ;D Im guessing not, but I would suggest a 22 ;) Maybe you could try blow darts, no one would even know ;D