Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: IronNoggin on February 10, 2022, 11:00:16 AM
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MP Small tables legislation to improve sustainability of fish stocks
February 9, 2022
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Ottawa, ON — Today, Clifford Small, Conservative Member of Parliament for Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, introduced Bill C-251, the Federal Framework on the Conservation of Fish Stocks and management of Pinnipeds Act, to promote the sustainability of Canada’s fish stocks.
Bill C-251 will ensure that conservation and protection of marine ecosystems are built into a new federal framework while opening the door for businesses and Indigenous communities to sell and trade pinniped products.
The Conservative Party of Canada supports a framework to provide business owners, harvesters, and Indigenous groups with guidance and predictability regarding the impact of pinniped populations on fish stocks.
“Healthy marine stocks ensure a vibrant fisheries economy, and the long-term sustainability of ecosystems and food chains in the ocean,” said M.P. Small. “For too long, Canadians whose livelihoods depend on healthy fish stocks, have witnessed the failure of conservation measures to ensure the sustainability of those stocks.”
“This legislation will provide an evidence-based framework to improve marine conservation and ensure the health of marine ecosystems that so many livelihoods on all coasts depend on,” concluded Small.
The Bill:
https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/44-1/bill/C-251/first-reading
Cheers,
Nog
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Our team has been rallying the MP's pretty hard on this Bill.
To date, we have the full support of the Conservatives and the Bloq.
And surprisingly enough, there is quite the handful of Liberals supporting it as well.
The latter started off in the Maritimes, but has now grown.
If YOU want to help make a difference and your MP happens to be NDP or Liberal, send them an email or letter suggesting they support Bill C - 251 when it comes up for second reading (April 27).
Cheers,
Nog
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For all the naysayers & those who thought this could never happen in BC, I strongly suggest you pay attention to the second reading of Bill C 251 next Wednesday. ;D
And if you are in support yourself, a quick Email or letter to your own MP encouraging them to follow suit would certainly be appreciated.
Cheers,
Nog
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did someone tell you a private member bill on pinniped control would not go into 2nd reading?
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Got a bit of a surprise coming just for your Ralpie Ol' Chap ;-)
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don't hold your breath! ;D
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don't hold your breath! ;D
(https://www.tnof.ca/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/ROFLMAO.gif)
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Interesting to see the liberal parliamentary secretary to the government leader come out in support as well as the balance of all parties speaking in favor.
Stay Tuned...
Nog
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From the House of Commons Journals here is the summary of proceedings related to C-251 (44-1)
Private Members' Business
At 5:30 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 30(6), the House proceeded to the consideration of Private Members' Business.
The order was read for the second reading and reference to the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans of Bill C-251, An Act respecting the development of a federal framework on the conservation of fish stocks and management of pinnipeds.
Mr. Small (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame), seconded by Mr. Perkins (South Shore—St. Margarets), moved, — That the bill be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.
Debate arose thereon.
Pursuant to Standing Order 93(1), the order was dropped to the bottom of the order of precedence on the Order Paper.
there was no 2nd reading and no vote. It may yet happen. The Hansard records on member statements is not yet available.
https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/44-1/house/sitting-60/journals
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Interesting to see the liberal parliamentary secretary to the government leader come out in support as well as the balance of all parties speaking in favor.
Stay Tuned...
Nog
I think you may have meant Bryan May the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Defense.
Hansard for April 28th is now on line at: https://www.ourcommons.ca/documentviewer/en/house/latest/hansard
the discussion begins at 1730 and ends at 1830 when the house moved to adjourn. The debate was quite varied and highlighted how complicated the issue is. It was also quite dignified a major difference from the frequent shenanigans during Question Period.
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I think you may have meant Bryan May the Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Defense.
Not at all, although I did welcome his statements as well.
I was referring to the somewhat lengthy address given by Kevin Lamoureux who is, as noted, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons. He was in obvious favor, as were the majority of liberals who did stand to speak (note the same among the Conservatives, the Bloq and the NDP).
Stay Tuned...
Nog
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This will probably be the main ENGO talking point
Ms. Lisa Marie Barron (Nanaimo—Ladysmith, NDP):
"Single-species management policies ignore the interconnection within our ecosystem and often see our oceans' value exclusively as what can be extracted from them. We see pinnipeds as a problem because they get in the way of our ability to take more fish out of the ocean. Managing pinnipeds to reduce fish mortality does not take into account the species that rely on pinnipeds, like transient killer whales. Along the west coast, we have only recently started to see the recovery of this incredible population, and the science has clearly stated that it is in large part due to the recovery of pinniped populations. I think most Canadians would agree that targeting specific species without considering the entire ecosystem could end in irreversible consequences."
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This will probably be the main ENGO talking point
It will. I was surprised to see her state that. Both her, and the vast majority of NDP MP's have assured us they will back the Bill. Some of what she stated appeared contrary to that, so we're reaching out to her to clarify once again.
She (and the NGO's) are in error when it comes to Transient (Biggs) Whales. Their numbers are robust, are growing and have been for a considerably long period of time. Certainly not "only recently started to see the recovery of this incredible population" and certainly not "that it is in large part due to the recovery of pinniped populations". In fact, the related science suggests nothing of the kind. A fact she is being reminded of (by Science btw) right now...
Cheers,
Nog
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Not at all, although I did welcome his statements as well.
I was referring to the somewhat lengthy address given by Kevin Lamoureux who is, as noted, the Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons. He was in obvious favor, as were the majority of liberals who did stand to speak (note the same among the Conservatives, the Bloq and the NDP).
Stay Tuned...
Nog
he is not currently in the post as you stated but previously served in that position and previously was also Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. he is currently a back bencher.
You also seemed to have missed that the fatal flaw in this bill is that it appears to be a money bill as noted by Mike Kelloway MP who is the P.S to the Ministry of FOC & Coast Guard.
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he is not currently in the post as you stated but previously served in that position and previously was also Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs. he is currently a back bencher.
I see you about as well informed on this matter as you were when you suggested "there was no 2nd reading". (http://www.outdoorsmenforum.ca/images/smilies/sHa_sarcasticlol.gif)
For you see there WAS a second reading. Which I watched in it's entirety. Voting will commence once it has gone through Committee for fine tuning. During that second reading, Kevin Lamoureux was publicly announced as: Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons. As he was in debate repeatedly again today.
You also WELL missed the mark in your latter assertion.
Used to fun debating with you. Now I simply wonder if you're getting senile...
Stay Tuned...
Nog
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LOL! My mistake is the PS and listed as so at the beginning of the record for the day but not in his governmental CV; https://pm.gc.ca/en/parliamentary-secretaries/kevin-lamoureux
At least I admit my error while you usually disappear on one of the multi-week wilderness hunt trips after one of your infamous predictions fail to come true.
It has not passed 2nd reading ... there has to be a vote see;
https://www.parl.ca/legisinfo/en/bill/44-1/c-251
Cheers!
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My mistake
It has not passed 2nd reading ... there has to be a vote see;
You seem to be full of those these days! ;D
And exactly as I noted, second reading has been initiated and the Bill will not be voted on until it has gone through Committee.
Reading comprehension difficulties old timer??
Wondering...
Nog
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You seem to be full of those these days! ;D
And exactly as I noted, second reading has been initiated and the Bill will not be voted on until it has gone through Committee.
Reading comprehension difficulties old timer??
Wondering...
Nog
more authoritative sources disagree with your assessment:
Second reading
A second reading is the stage of the legislative process where a draft of a bill is read a second time.
In most Westminster-style legislatures, a vote is taken on the general outlines of the bill before being sent to committee.
from: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reading_(legislature)
Second reading and referral to a committee
The second reading stage of the legislative process provides an opportunity to participate in debate on the general scope and principle of the bill.
Once the bill is adopted at second reading, it is referred to committee for further scrutiny.
from: https://www.ourcommons.ca/about/OurProcedure/LegislativeProcess/c_g_legislativeprocess-e.htm
the Parliamentary records also indicates that 2nd reading is not complete as it cannot be until the bill is adopted or not passed at 2nd reading:
https://www.parl.ca/legisinfo/en/bill/44-1/c-251
and as I stated above it has been moved to the bottom of the priority list.
Private Members' Business
At 5:30 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 30(6), the House proceeded to the consideration of Private Members' Business.
The order was read for the second reading and reference to the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans of Bill C-251, An Act respecting the development of a federal framework on the conservation of fish stocks and management of pinnipeds.
Mr. Small (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame), seconded by Mr. Perkins (South Shore—St. Margarets), moved, — That the bill be now read a second time and referred to the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans.
Debate arose thereon.
Pursuant to Standing Order 93(1), the order was dropped to the bottom of the order of precedence on the Order Paper.
from: https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/44-1/house/sitting-60/journals
who knows when it will be heard again?
I am not making this stuff and unlike you where you expect people to rely on your word or sometimes imperfect law and procedural knowledge, I provide definitive sources. These are not opinions, they are facts
I also want to clarify something else that is a fact and that is that depending on the sessions of parliament somewhere between 2 or 3% and 10% of private members bills are passed into law, hence my earlier remark "don't hold your breath".
A similar occurrence was following the appeal of the successful appeal The DLCC/MF&GC when I told you that only a small number of requests for leave to appeal to the SCOC were actually heard by the SCOC you scoffed that your Legal Beagles knew better. Subsequently the leave was turned down without reason (which is normal).
Have a good weekend. I'll be doing crossword puzzles and math games to try and keep my wits up in the face of impending old age! You need to do something similar.
Cheers.
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You are indeed hilarious!
Enjoy your crosswords old timer...
Nog
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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.):
"The member is fortunate in the sense that he is in the first draw, which allows the member to ensure the legislation will, in fact, be voted on. There might be an opportunity to see it go to committee. We will have to wait and see. One of the things I do know is that there are members in all political parties who are taking a look at the issue of pinnipeds populations, because it is not just seals, as we can factor in walruses and so forth. They are having this huge impact."
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I think it would have been a better demonstration of his understanding of the matter if the other pinniped he mentioned was a sea lion. At least here on the PWC Sea Lions are cited as a major predator of salmon. Walrus generally don't eat fish, they eat eat molluscs and other rather soft bottom dwelling invertebrates. That's why they have tusks, to root in the sea bed. Last time I checked we don't have many walrus in BC nor in the maritime waters though I guess there are of interest for harvest by the Inuit and Innu peoples in Labrador & Ungava etc
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Second Reading of Bill C 251 is up again at 2:30pm today: http://parlvu.parl.gc.ca/
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IN didn't inform anyone but this Bill C-251(44-1) was defeated at second reading on June 15th.
https://www.parl.ca/legisinfo/en/bill/44-1/c-251
the vote; https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/votes/44/1/151
the Vote by party: https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/votes/44/1/151?view=party
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IN didn't inform anyone but this Bill C-251(44-1) was defeated at second reading on June 15th.
The reason I did not inform anyone was the vote was shut down due to "technical difficulties" with the electronic voting system.
At that point, the Speaker noted the vote would recommence in October of this year.
For this now to be handled like this, it sets a VERY dangerous precedence!
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Something is very VERY Amiss here.
At the last reading on June 15th, the Speaker stated that the vote was now removed until the next sitting in October due to "technical difficulties" with the electronic voting system.
Then, quietly, the government website suddenly announces the Bill as being defeated:
https://www.parl.ca/legisinfo/en/bill/44-1/c-251
I personally watched the vote via parlvu. I watched as four Liberals stood in support.
How is it possible that the vote now reflects but TWO Liberals in support?
https://www.ourcommons.ca/Members/en/votes/44/1/151?view=party
Something very much STINKS here...
Nog
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I guess they were using Dominion voting machines? ;D
2 Liberals or 4 wouldn't matter as the gap is 25 votes.
MP Small or another opposition member can always reintroduce a new, less flawed private member bill in October.
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if one goes to Hansard for June 15th https://www.ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/44-1/house/sitting-89/hansard
then to the 1st Private members business on the Contents tab on the right your will find the vote on
Conservation of Fish Stocks and Management of Pinnipeds Act Bill C251(44-1)
there you can read that the vote was suspended at 3:32pm while technical issues with the vote could be resolved. Twenty eight minutes later at 4pm the House resumed and a vote was called, Yeas 150, Nays 175. The speaker declared the motion to pass second reading defeated.
A suggestion to bring the items forward next fall when the house rises again after the summer recess is not mentioned.
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Unless they staged another complete vote, that doesn't explain the numbers discrepancies...
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You know Hansard is the official record. It gets reviewed by virtually everyone in the Commons. You know you weren't the only person watching the broadcast that afternoon & evening. The proceeding of the House are recorded and you could probably find them on line. Bits of it are usually broadcast on national news and on the the 'net. You know there were at least 325 MPs present including most of the Conservative big wigs and of course the HOC staff and public people in the gallery...yet no one has so far brought up the sneaky shenanigans regarding the vote you claim to have observed.
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