Fishing with Rod Discussion Forum
Fishing in British Columbia => General Discussion => Topic started by: marmot on March 29, 2008, 03:37:41 PM
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I just took my CORE exam for hunting and while it was too easy IMO (any idiot can get one), it sure made me think we could really use something like this for angling. Most of it is common sense but like I said I think there is room for some more difficult questions, especially ethics based ones, and species identification.
That said, it covers conservation, ethics, laws, species identification and other important concepts common to both hunting and fishing. WHY do we not have to do something like this prior to getting a fishing license? We currently have nothing in place to educate new anglers properly on methods of catch and release fishing, species identification (other than the "minimal" ID training in the regs), proper angling ethics, the laws surrounding native fisheries, ANYTHING. All we get is a regulations handbook each year that the majority of people skim through to find what they need to find on a particular river.
Has this sort of thing been proposed before? Maybe Chris G you may know something about this? I'm curious how many people would be in favor of a more stringent and education based licensing system.....and if not, WHY NOT?
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I think the BIG reason is....
You can RELEASE an incorrectly caught fish/wrong species. C&R is a wee bit tougher in hunting.
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It's also pretty hard to kill someone with a fishing rod. Same can't be said for a gun.
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oh it can be done
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I'm all for it,
Some form of education before you get your license.
I'm not talking anything intense,but some people can't read a synopsis ::)
Been boating for 20 yrs and NOW they want me to get a license. :D
Rando
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oh it can be done
Lol yes it is, simply "accidentally" hook someone you dislike in the jugular vein and pull, I almost accidentally did this to my friend after my hook came flying back when I lost my fish (hook snagged his neck, weights were still going and helped with the pulling part and gave him a nice gash), there was blood everywhere :-\ Although using a szie 2/0 hook for springs when it happened im sure it can be done with a size 2 hook for steelhead ;D ;D
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More beaurocracy and fees.
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Not only adults fish you know. Try telling a 5 year old, no exam no fishing.
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Not only adults fish you know. Try telling a 5 year old, no exam no fishing.
Are you serious?How many 5 year olds fish alone or with only other 5 year old? I think thats a pretty simple detail to iron out!...Maybe exams for 12 years and older,still no fee license until 16years of age.Just an Idea.
I,m all for the Idea.The neglect of basic education is witnessed all the time on the river,on the lake,and on the chuck.
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It would cost in the millions to set up! the money would be better used in habitat,and enhancement.
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Not only adults fish you know. Try telling a 5 year old, no exam no fishing.
Are you serious?How many 5 year olds fish alone or with only other 5 year old? I think thats a pretty simple detail to iron out!...Maybe exams for 12 years and older,still no fee license until 16years of age.Just an Idea.
I,m all for the Idea.The neglect of basic education is witnessed all the time on the river,on the lake,and on the chuck.
You got to be kidding. From what you're saying the kids guardian has to have fishing license, and also what you're insinuating is some people can fish without the proper knowledge? ::)
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I think the BIG reason is....
You can RELEASE an incorrectly caught fish/wrong species. C&R is a wee bit tougher in hunting.
Yes you can, if you know how to release it properly and know how to properly identify the fish you brought to hand. You'd be surprised how many people out there don't have a clue how to do either one.
And JBJ, how is education similar to beaurocracy? Please enlighten. As well, if the fees were put back into the education program or into habitat enhancement, whats the problem? I'd gladly pay more licensing fees if it went to either one. The beaurocracy flag gets waved around all the time but the people complaining about it don't realize that without management we would have NO fish ANYWHERE anymore. Its time to wake up and realize that we live in a society that will take advantage of every last opportunity until it is dried up unless it is regulated (unless you know a better way).
Dion, the CORE program more about conservation, ethics, survival and like i said many other concepts common to hunting and fishing. It's not focused on firearms. Firearms safety obviously has a part in it as well but it is covered more extensively when you get your Possession and acquisition license.
BwiBwi, whats wrong with a 5 year old having to be with somebody who has been "properly" educated and licensed?? Shouldn't a person who has properly learned how to fish (ethically, also) be providing guidance?
We've all seen the garbage, we've all seen poor ethics, we've all seen people take more than the limit. Wouldn't you guys agree that the first step in preventing any of this would be properly educating people? Much more than this would cost to implement gets pissed away every year by our government.
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BwiBwi, whats wrong with a 5 year old having to be with somebody who has been "properly" educated and licensed?? Shouldn't a person who has properly learned how to fish (ethically, also) be providing guidance?
We've all seen the garbage, we've all seen poor ethics, we've all seen people take more than the limit. Wouldn't you guys agree that the first step in preventing any of this would be properly educating people? Much more than this would cost to implement gets pissed away every year by our government.
Yes it is wrong. Why should everyone in the family or friend get a fishing license? Government is trying to encourage fishing/outdoor activity, and not hinder it. You think a test will change people from not leaving garbage behind? Everyone finishing kindergarten has been thought to respect other people's property, be nice to others, proper social engagement... You and I both know what goes on out there. There's enough education, but not enough enforcement.
Oh and the ethical issue, try to tell the Catholic Father living a few doors down the street, fishing/hunting is ethical. ;)
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BwiBwi, whats wrong with a 5 year old having to be with somebody who has been "properly" educated and licensed?? Shouldn't a person who has properly learned how to fish (ethically, also) be providing guidance?
We've all seen the garbage, we've all seen poor ethics, we've all seen people take more than the limit. Wouldn't you guys agree that the first step in preventing any of this would be properly educating people? Much more than this would cost to implement gets pissed away every year by our government.
Yes it is wrong. Why should everyone in the family or friend get a fishing license? Government is trying to encourage fishing/outdoor activity, and not hinder it. You think a test will change people from not leaving garbage behind? Everyone finishing kindergarten has been thought to respect other people's property, be nice to others, proper social engagement... You and I both know what goes on out there. There's enough education, but not enough enforcement.
Oh and the ethical issue, try to tell the Catholic Father living a few doors down the street, fishing/hunting is ethical. ;)
Who said that everyone in the family, or friends should get a fishing license? If a 5 year old goes fishing somebody who knows the ropes should be supervising. Is there a point even arguing with that??? You wouldn't necessarily NEED to be licensed per se, you would have already completed your "fishing core" program and have an "angler number" or something like that that stays with you for life.
You say there is enough education....there is NONE. Any idiot can go purchase a license, rod, reel, hooks, and worms and go out there and start doing damage, with nothing other than a set of regs that stays in the glovebox or worse yet gets thrown out. Sorry, but "none" and "enough" are not the same thing. I agree wholeheartedly with you that enforcement is at best shoddy and toothless, but enforcement is something that by nature happens after the fact. Why do people seem so reluctant to do something proactive? Too much time out of your day?
And, BwiBwi, faith based "ethics" are not ethics at all and are irrelevant.
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Really Marmot killing other lifeforms for entertainment in itself already is NOT ethical. The only question is it legal. Now if your arguement holds any truth about testing, try motor license. How many people breaks the law? Hey and those tests is not just symbolical.
You said it yourself, anyone taking a kid out need to be educated, and your definition of educated is through testing. So anyone in the family or friends want to take the kids out will need a license. So again, why should everyone get a license?
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Bwi Bwi, I agree, killing other lifeforms for entertainment is not ethical. Thats why I EAT what i kill, on the rare occasion that I do kill.
Again you confuse testing with education. Look at stats about people who take "young drivers" vs. people who do not if you choose to use motor vehicle licensing as an analogy.
My definition of education is not exclusively through testing, I never stated this, you are making assumptions...just administering a test won't teach anything. Read my response again and you will note that I did not say that people taking kids out need to be licensed, they just need to have been educated and passed a "core" program at some point...making them "licensable". Do you think its OK for somebody who doesn't know a lick about species ID, c&r, or how to properly read the regs to take a 5 year old out fishing and retain incorrect species, fish with barbs, etc? What makes it ok???? Just because the kid is 5? Irresponsible IMO. I don't think a 5 year old needs a license, they need responsible guidance until they can learn proper angling methods and themselves be licensed.
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Testing will not accomplish what you are striving for. What anyone wants to do with the knowledge it's totally up to them after exam. That holds true everywhere. They can still choose to be ignorant like some irresponsible drivers, let it be young, or mature by sunburn, and seniors. For young fishermen, there are programs to educate them that's already in place. People can be educated, tested all day long, but until they realize by breaking these rules they'll be penalized, these 'unacceptable' action will continue. So instead of throwing all those funding away into more test, more education material, why not have everyone involving in fishing activity to sign a waver that they have received the fishing regulation material and by the time of fishing, they'll have read and understand the regulation. So on the flow they can't act dumb, makes enforcing easier.
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Oh and the ethical issue, try to tell the Catholic Father living a few doors down the street, fishing/hunting is ethical.
I am a baptized Catholic and so was my father and his father before him,fishing and hunting has allways been a big part of who we are and allways will be,i cant believe that a simple post about possible education regarding one of our precious resources has someone throwing out the religious card whats net,the race card .give your head a shake.
yes enforcement needs to be enhanced but educating the users of our resource would not be a bad thing,in the hunting regulations an adult over 19 that has taken the core and passed can take a youth hunting and that youth does not have to have taken any course and can harvest an animal under the adults license,so there is a precedent that has allready been set for this kind of issue. so why wouldn't it work for fishing as well.
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I think the BIG reason is....
You can RELEASE an incorrectly caught fish/wrong species. C&R is a wee bit tougher in hunting.
Not much tougher......I belong to the Okanagan Shoot And Release Club....our motto: "Conservation Through Incompetence".
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Testing will not accomplish what you are striving for. What anyone wants to do with the knowledge it's totally up to them after exam. That holds true everywhere. They can still choose to be ignorant like some irresponsible drivers, let it be young, or mature by sunburn, and seniors. For young fishermen, there are programs to educate them that's already in place. People can be educated, tested all day long, but until they realize by breaking these rules they'll be penalized, these 'unacceptable' action will continue. So instead of throwing all those funding away into more test, more education material, why not have everyone involving in fishing activity to sign a waver that they have received the fishing regulation material and by the time of fishing, they'll have read and understand the regulation. So on the flow they can't act dumb, makes enforcing easier.
sigh.....I'm going to try one last time to get you to understand: I'm not saying "testing will accomplish" anything. The bottom line is the people that fish and "enjoy" the outdoors unethically were never properly educated, be it by their parents, the system or otherwise: Ignorance is not a "choice" in this case it is a state of being. Putting tools in place to help prevent this ignorance is the first step in conservation of ANYTHING! I honestly can't believe that people in this day and age are still thinking retroactively about issues like this. Have we learned nothing?
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Marmot you brought up test like CORE for hunting should also be done for fishing. If testing will not accomplish anything why have it? Are you getting this? Test is therefore not the way to go.
Searun, if catch quota goes under a licensed adult, the under age fishing group would always be accompanies by "mature" fisherman. However, current system allows under age fishing group to get their own license "no cost" so they can be fishing own their own or with someone that's not licensed. So it is different from hunting.
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Marmot you brought up test like CORE for hunting should also be done for fishing. If testing will not accomplish anything why have it? Are you getting this? Test is therefore not the way to go.
Searun, if catch quota goes under a licensed adult, the under age fishing group would always be accompanies by "mature" fisherman. However, current system allows under age fishing group to get their own license "no cost" so they can be fishing own their own or with someone that's not licensed. So it is different from hunting.
OK Bwi Bwi I see where the confusion is arising. CORE is a program that people intending to go hunting participate in that helps prepare them by teaching conservation/ethics, bla bla bla. The test is just the formality at the end that allows you to purchase a license. Again, its more about the education. I should have been more clear that it was not "just" a test... but in the future, before you argue against something so vehemently maybe its a good idea to get a little information yourself. I'm SURE if you took the program you would see the merit of something like this for fishing, albeit more refined and not as I've said a "token" test at the end of it. If it were solely a "test", I would agree with you 100%, it would not be worthwhile.
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Marmot you brought up test like CORE for hunting should also be done for fishing. If testing will not accomplish anything why have it? Are you getting this? Test is therefore not the way to go.
Searun, if catch quota goes under a licensed adult, the under age fishing group would always be accompanies by "mature" fisherman. However, current system allows under age fishing group to get their own license "no cost" so they can be fishing own their own or with someone that's not licensed. So it is different from hunting.
Yes it is different than hunting but why cant the same idea be used to educate new fishermen,albeit as marmot said in a more refined manner and a few minor changes to suit the resource,if fishing ever was to go to a core system of educating new people to the fishery i can guarantee that the course would be quite similar to what is being done for hunting,IE ethics ,safety,equipment,species identification,etc